Curse

Loviatar · Feb 14, 2008, 05:58 PM // 17:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aera Lure

No, because it wasnt always that way. Heroes made it that way. If anything, they should remove them altogether.

completely totally wrong.

people were begging them to improve the henchies from the start so they could dump jerks more easily.

remember way back when they added better henchies like lena to the desert?

people posted how amazing that the hench actually worked.

pug jerks ruined pug and it is literally the heroes keeping it going.

take the heroes away and you have to scrap the henchies as well after doing that

force me to group with the mostly dregs of pugdom and game over for me

pygar · Feb 14, 2008, 06:14 PM // 18:14

I saw a somebody at Kodash Bazaar the other day spamming "LFG for All's well that ends well" which if I remember right is a cakewalk that barely even requires combat. At any rate, it can be argued that PUGs actually create players that will always /fail at the game. Being good enough to play the game through with Heroes and Henchies should almost be a requirement to join PUGs.

VinnyRidira · Feb 14, 2008, 07:02 PM // 19:02

If they gave us 7 hero parties, what would happen to the poor henchmen? Would they go on strike for better skills? I think its the flag thing that stops them. They could make the last 4 heroes behave like the henchman for the flagging thing, at least initially till everyone gripes about not having 7 flags buttons.

I h/h or play 2 peeps + 6 often. There are times when I PuG for fun. It is quite shocking how many people don't know how to set up their heroes properly.

pygar · Feb 14, 2008, 07:17 PM // 19:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by VinnyRidira

I h/h or play 2 peeps + 6 often. There are times when I PuG for fun. It is quite shocking how many people don't know how to set up their heroes properly.

O, you just reminded me of a good point...

One of the only times I play with other people is sometimes with one of my guild buddies (there are 3 of us in guild,long time friends in RL) and that is me and my friend and 6 Heroes (because when you play with one other person, apparently then it's ok to have more heroes for some reason) Oddly enough having so many heroes does not = win (I mean, sure it does if done right), getting split up from each other is almost as much of a problem as it is in PUGs.

VinnyRidira · Feb 14, 2008, 07:25 PM // 19:25

When we play peeps and heroes we generally do it with team speak. we occasionally play 3 peeps and sometimes 4 peeps. The h/h play tends to spike the enemy one at a time. Flagging can get quite tricky especially if you want to make the henchman go one place and the heroes stay with you. Obviously apart from one or two gain sayers it would seem that Anet should consider that their community is very disappointed in not being able too play with 7 heroes.

Sir Owns Alot EP · Feb 14, 2008, 08:17 PM // 20:17

The only reason why seven heroes has never been implemented is because people for PuG's are slim enough. If everyone could bring a full team of heroes, then the only choice for many would be to only use Henchman. And many henchmen, as previously stated, absolutely sucks. (Devona's Charge really pisses me off). Some people have neither Nightfall nor GWEN, and don't have access to heroes.

That being said, I am all for having a seven heroes. However, this would absolutely SUCK if someone did not have access to any Heroes at all.

Nemo the Capitalist · Feb 14, 2008, 09:39 PM // 21:39

PvE skills oped indeed but heros make up for it

Racthoh · Feb 14, 2008, 09:41 PM // 21:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Owns Alot EP

And many henchmen, as previously stated, absolutely sucks. (Devona's Charge really pisses me off).

Those Tyrian henchmen are good at Charge! chaining, makes capping all of the skills in the shiverpeaks a lot faster.

Thorondor Port · Feb 14, 2008, 09:52 PM // 21:52

Another one of these threads? Wow.

kk....

"7 heroes would be great because pugs are scrub and i use hero/hench, so why not give me my 7 heroes so i can play with skillbars"

BlackSephir · Feb 14, 2008, 10:19 PM // 22:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thorondor Port

Another one of these threads? Wow.

kk....

"7 heroes would be great because pugs are scrub and i use hero/hench, so why not give me my 7 heroes so i can play with skillbars"

ANOTHER one? Better look at first post's date, champ.
O, and thx for bumping it.

Isileth · Feb 14, 2008, 10:28 PM // 22:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thorondor Port

Another one of these threads? Wow.

kk....

"7 heroes would be great because pugs are scrub and i use hero/hench, so why not give me my 7 heroes so i can play with skillbars"

Indeed thats the only argument people here are using.

But well done for not reading the rest of the thread just incase someone had thought of another reason.

Balan Makki · Feb 14, 2008, 10:34 PM // 22:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Owns Alot EP

That being said, I am all for having a seven heroes. However, this would absolutely SUCK if someone did not have access to any Heroes at all.

If I had access to more heroes, I'd be picking up one or two Real players in every outpost. Simply because my PuG win would be a guaranty. However, with only three heroes, it's just too painful--benevolence loses to frustration. . .

the_jos · Feb 14, 2008, 10:48 PM // 22:48

It's still alive...

Well, I have to admit I've changed my point of view a bit on this subject.
While in the past I said no (for various reasons) to 7 heroes, I think there are some arguments for allowing a full team of heroes.

Most notably, full Ursan (UB) teams changed the gameplay a lot in favor of teaming up with more humans. The players did not improve, it's all about pressing 1,2,1,1,2,1,1,1,2 now but that does not really matter.
People have a valid reason to team up with humans, thanks to UB.

Where do full hero teams fit in?
My main objection was that full hero teams would be preferred too much (timewise) compared to adding more humans.
This is also solved by UB. No more arguing about builds.
Just make sure you have the elite and a reasonable Norn rank.

Now it would be no more than reasonable to allow people that don't like to play UB to play with 7 heroes.
Since they still have a hard time to team up and that got even harder since a lot of the GW community seems to be playing UB anyway, making it harder to find people for a regular team.

Is this reaction a bit over the top?
Perhaps.
However, I do feel the introduction of the Ursan skills made a huge difference in favor of the full human teams and since the teaming problem was my main objection against full hero teams I now don't oppose against full hero teams as I did before.
I still have some reasons why it should not be introduced, but those are small compared to the teaming one.

Aera Lure · Feb 15, 2008, 03:01 AM // 03:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

completely totally wrong.

people were begging them to improve the henchies from the start so they could dump jerks more easily.

remember way back when they added better henchies like lena to the desert?

people posted how amazing that the hench actually worked.

Correct up unto this point, but its irrelevant. Has nothing to do with what I posted. Better henchman AI was warranted in some cases back then. There were still decent PUGs aplenty, as well as just about as many bad ones, players who used all henchmen, all-guild groups etc. There was, however, better balance in terms of team creation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

pug jerks ruined pug and it is literally the heroes keeping it going.

I never said PUG jerks were not a or the reason PUGs as of late have failed on a greater margin. I simply pointed to heroes as a cause, since a dam doesnt break instantly, but there becomes a breaking point. Heroes were introduced and the need, the desire to group with other players nearly vanished to the point where you're lucky to find it should you desire it. I'll go so far as to say heroes were the breaking point, but I respect the opinion that they were merely a contributing factor.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

take the heroes away and you have to scrap the henchies as well after doing that

No you dont. Why would you? What does this really have to do with heroes anyway? Would I mind the removal of all AI? No, not really, but that isnt the topic, nor is it what I said.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

force me to group with the mostly dregs of pugdom and game over for me

So what did you do before heroes came along? Just start playing the game recently? Its a rhetorical, given both your account join date and the fact that I recognize you from forum times ages ago. Obviously you PUGged, played in guild-only groups and/or used all-henchmen or part henchmen groups as we all did back then.

The argument that the removal of heroes ends the game for everyone seems to conveniently forget that we played the game quite well in the two chapters prior to their arrival. It also seems to conveniently forget that most of us prefer the days back then to the days now, though many people wont consider even possibly to thinking about that fact that as fun or easy as heroes might make things now, they contributed to some of this demise.

I seem to recall Prophecies and Factions playing just fine. I seem to recall pursuing six of my Protector's titles all in PUGs by choice, because I enjoyed PUGs, and found them largely successful. I wouldnt dream of doing that now.

I respect your opinion. I merely gave mine. I can just as easily call your assessment "completely wrong". It is not so black and white as to be that simple. Were I completely wrong, this wouldnt even be a topic, let alone how many pages of it now?

erk · Feb 15, 2008, 03:52 AM // 03:52

In order to have 7 Heros you would have to change the design of the user interface for the inventory and the skills panels, and probably many other things we don't know about that happen behind the scenes. That sounds like a lot of work and I seriously doubt that A.net would pull staff of GW2 development to do that.

mage767 · Feb 15, 2008, 04:06 AM // 04:06

For the pimptieth time:

7 heroes activated only for HARD-MODE
3 heroes activated for NORMAL-MODE (as it is right now)

END OF STORY.

VinnyRidira · Feb 15, 2008, 05:16 AM // 05:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by erk

In order to have 7 Heros you would have to change the design of the user interface for the inventory and the skills panels, and probably many other things we don't know about that happen behind the scenes. That sounds like a lot of work and I seriously doubt that A.net would pull staff of GW2 development to do that.

I can go into an area with 2 peeps and 6 heroes. The other peep can leave and I run with 6 heroes. The other three heroes then behave like henchman. They could quite easily allow me to choose 3 main heroes that I can micro manage and the other 4 behave like henchmen. This with no interface changes at all. I think that would be quite acceptable.

6am3 Fana71c · Feb 15, 2008, 05:56 AM // 05:56

Will someone close this allready -.-

Isileth · Feb 15, 2008, 06:15 AM // 06:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6am3 Fana71c

Will someone close this allready -.-

Why? Because people like yourself keep posting messages like the quoted?

If you dont like the idea feel free to say you disagree and explain why, but there is no need to ask for a thread to be closed because you dont agree with the topic.

Bryant Again · Feb 15, 2008, 07:14 AM // 07:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

If you dont like the idea feel free to say you disagree and explain why, but there is no need to ask for a thread to be closed because you dont agree with the topic.

It could be the fact that this thread keeps getting ressed, but like Ursan is an issue that keeps arising and thus conversing about it should be encouraged. The only difference is that Ursan is a much more heated discussion and is why threads revolving around it keep getting closed.